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The Fruits Principle 2 Years, 1 Month ago
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That phrase has it's basis in the American Revolutionary War(I suppose), and was one of the founding principle goals regarding the strive for independence. For every citizen to be able to reap 'the fruits' from the labor of their own hands was a goal, the purpose...
Have we deviated from this, through the industrialist revolution, in the very worst of ways? If so, is it - was it - inevitable?
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Re:The Fruits Principle 2 Years, 1 Month ago
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I think it's one of those principles that sounds good, but in practice, could be seen as a little selfish. We all feel we're entitled 'to the sweat of our brow', but this sort of pseudo-solipsitic idea that every citizen is able to reap the fruits of our neighbour doesn't work altogether in modern society. This is probably why America hasn't followed my own country's National Health Service idea was such enthusiasm- I think people are resentful of their money or goods being taxed heavily for the benefit of others, but in order to coexist in a community, you need a sharing policy to an extent.
I think if people work hard, they are entitled to good pay. But working and achieving are separate entities- if you work hard at an easy, low-income job, are you entitled to more than someone who is working an incredibly difficult job but finds it incredibly easy? And what about those who cannot find any labour in order to reap the fruits, doesn't society have to look out for them? I think the initial principle is flawed, and a society has to deviate from it inevitably in order to coexist peacefully and effectively.
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Re:The Fruits Principle 2 Years ago
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Jay wrote:
I think it's one of those principles that sounds good, but in practice, could be seen as a little selfish. We all feel we're entitled 'to the sweat of our brow', but this sort of pseudo-solipsitic idea that every citizen is able to reap the fruits of our neighbour doesn't work altogether in modern society.
Two things here...
I am failing to equate reaping the fruits of the labor from one's own hands as selfish. It seems more like that should be expected. If I labor to produce something, then why is it considered selfish if demand exists, I can sell it and want the profit? Could you elaborate?
Reaping the fruits of our neighbor is not reaping the fruits of one's own hands. I do not understand *exactly* what you mean by psuedo-solipsistic.
This is probably why America hasn't followed my own country's National Health Service idea was such enthusiasm- I think people are resentful of their money or goods being taxed heavily for the benefit of others, but in order to coexist in a community, you need a sharing policy to an extent.
That is one way to look at things, although I do not want to get into that.
I think if people work hard, they are entitled to good pay. But working and achieving are separate entities- if you work hard at an easy, low-income job, are you entitled to more than someone who is working an incredibly difficult job but finds it incredibly easy?
There are physically demanding 'hard' jobs and there are intellectually demanding hard jobs. The skill level or physical strength required to perform the work is not in question here.
One should be entitled to more of the fruits of the labor from their own hands than anyone else.
In cases where it can be clearly established, do you think that it is acceptable for an owner to profit more directly from the hands of the laborer than the laborer does themself? If a worker's labor is sold for 'X', should the owner be allowed to receive more than 50% of 'X' while the laborer receives less than that?
And what about those who cannot find any labour in order to reap the fruits, doesn't society have to look out for them? I think the initial principle is flawed, and a society has to deviate from it inevitably in order to coexist peacefully and effectively.
The 'fruits principle' does not address whether or not work is available. That is a separate issue. It regards who reaps the fruits when it is available, and how that is legally determined. The issue being raised here is one of which that requires an examination of whether or not one *is* able to reap, at least, most of the fruits from the labor of their own hands.
Can we objectively define *exactly* what constitutes the fruits?
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