[quote1212511965=lorsban]After reading that, I remembered a music teacher telling me the effect of music on plants. I remember her telling us that the plants that were placed in a room with classical music grew far better than the one's that were placed in a room with rock/metal music playing. So, I checked online and it looks like she got that from a study made by another person. Anyway, here's an excerpt from that study[/quote1212511965]

I've seen this experiment used in psychology courses to demonstrate the importance of controlling for confounding variables in experiments. Just consider the possible confounding variables, that is, the factors other than the independent variable (the playing of music) that could contribute to the treatment effect (the effect the music had on the plants, that is, growth or death): Genetics, soil nutrient content, and access to sunlight are all possible reasons why some plants lived and others died. Most importantly, it doesn't seem that she used a control plant, one which received no music at all. Had that plant died along with some of the others, then she would have to conclude that it was one of the confounding variables that was responsible for the success of the plants rather than the choice of music. Conversely, even if she had used a control, it's difficult to account for all the confounds. She would have had to use plants of the same genetic line, potted with soil with identical nutrient content, and placed somewhere where they all received the same amount of sunlight. Even then, the results are almost meaningless as they are not generalizable to humans in any way, given that plants lack nervous systems.

Of course, many humans love music that the majority of people find repulsive. I consider myself a discerning listener of music, I tend to prefer songs that are melodious and have long instrumental passages, and genres like jazz and classical fit this perfectly. However, I primarily listen to rock music. Furthermore, I am a fan of all sorts of abrasive and dissonant music, from contemporary classical music to death metal and noise/ambient. My point is that, it isn't really genres that we like, or specific qualities of music, rather, we find pleasure in certain chord progressions. Certain chord progressions tend to elicit the same response in all persons of a given culture. However, because various cultures use different scales, there are no universal rules that guide behavioral responses to music. In traditional Indian and Arabian music microtones are prominent, whereas, in the West microtonal music was considered "diabolus in musica" in the Middle Ages (around the same time that classical Indian music was experiencing a flourishing). It wasn't until 20th century classical music that the use of microtones and dissonance became acceptable, but even to most people today such music is disagreeable and it is all due to the bizarre policies of the Catholic church half a millennium ago or more.

I've been trying to determine for some time now which progressions produce, in me, the positive emotions and somatic sensations associated with dopamine and opioid release, but I have been unable to come up with any rules. All I can say for sure is what is painfully obvious: The manner in which the brain processes emotion is incredibly complex and there are not fast and easy one-to-one correspondences. I peruse the neuroscience research of music often though, in hopes that someone, somewhere, has shed some light on the topic.

[quote1213330853=lorsban]Maybe our kids will be listening to music during lectures. Maybe doctors will be prescribing music instead of anti- depressants, maybe scientists will discover the rhythm and melody that emanates from our planet, solar system and even our universe - like the heartbeat we hear while still in our mother's womb, coupled with the tonal nuances of our mother's voice.[/quote1213330853]

It's a nice thought, but as I said previously, there doesn't seem to be any universal rules that govern behavioral responses to music. Furthermore, listening to music while doing any other activity will always be deleterious to the other activity, despite what some people claim about how music helps them study. Attending to two tasks at once increases the load on working memory and this makes it less likely that novel information will be properly encoded in long-term memory. The beneficial effects of music are often overblown, as the fad years ago of parents making their infants listen to classical music attests (and it was in response to a single study that found a positive correlation between synaptic density and listening to Mozart in rats; talk about jumping to conclusions).

Which is not to say that listening to music is not a wonderful and transcendent experience, because it is. It is a wonderful experience that ranks up there with the best that life has to offer conscious beings such as ourselves. I've had 'mystical' experiences in response to music that have change my entire world-view. Sure, I realize that such experiences are entirely generated by my brain, but I see it as a sudden phase shift in the synthesis of information in my brain; suddenly various pieces of information from various modalities and sources were united into a whole that made sense on both a rational and emotional level. This is the power of music, at least in brains predisposed to such power. I can't imagine how it must be to go through life without ever enjoying music, but I know a few people here and there that claim to rarely listen to music!

[quote1213331666=Being]Can you give a link to the Xanadu thread? Or, which forum is it in? [/quote1213331666]

If you have not found it yet, it can be found [link=http://www.ephilosopher.com/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?150339]here[/link].

For those of you interested in the topic of music and how it affects the brain I recommend the following books (in addition to Daniel Levitin's 'This Is Your Brain On Music'):

[link=http://www.amazon.com/Music-Language-Brain-Aniruddh-Patel/dp/0195123751/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1213332371&sr=8-1]Music, Language, and the Brain by Patel, Aniruddh[/link] - Great book, but it can be technical

[link=http://www.amazon.com/Musicophilia-Tales-Music-Oliver-Sacks/dp/1400040817/ref=pd_bbs_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1213332393&sr=8-1]Musicophilia: Tales of Music and the Brain by Oliver Sacks[/link] - This is an accessible book about the effect of music on brains, recommended for non-specialists.

[link=http://www.amazon.com/Cognitive-Neuroscience-Music-Isabelle-Peretz/dp/0198525206/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1213332400&sr=8-1]The Cognitive Neuroscience of Music by Peretz, I., & Zatorre, R. [/link] - Everything you ever wanted to know about the effect of music on the brain in one book. This is a classic, but those without some background in neuroscience and psychology may be lost at parts. However, this is the only book of its kind, so if you have a strong desire to know more about music and the brain, I strongly recommend this.

so which form of progressions do you find attractive to your tastes ?

Hey Xanadu,

Most importantly, it doesn't seem that she used a control plant, one which received no music at all.

It seems she did use a control:

"Next Mrs. Retallack tried another experiment again using the three chambers. In one chamber she played North Indian classical music performed by sitar and tabla, in another she played Bach organ music, and in the third, no music was played." - from the link.

But it's not stated which plant species were used or what the other variables were. I would think it obvious that they would have chosen the same kind of plant from the same seed pack, planted in the same type of soil and raised under the same conditions. This experiment is easily tested, though.

I would be curious to see this experiment done to animals like fish or birds or something like that.

In traditional Indian and Arabian music microtones are prominent, whereas, in the West microtonal music was considered "diabolus in musica" in the Middle Ages (around the same time that classical Indian music was experiencing a flourishing).

True. I just came from a trip to the Middle East (Dubai, Iran) and I had the opportunity to listen to some local bands play and the first thing I noticed was the depth of the music. The tonal variations within each song was incredible. Definitely different from the stuff I grew up on.

Music is a lot like food. An individual's personal preferences don't really stray far from the culture that person's from. I must say, middle eastern food is just as interesting as it's music.

Certain chord progressions tend to elicit the same response in all persons of a given culture.

That's true. Cultures usually like a certain type of progression and play it in different settings regardless of tempo.

I've been trying to determine for some time now which progressions produce, in me, the positive emotions and somatic sensations associated with dopamine and opioid release, but I have been unable to come up with any rules.

But you probably already have a couple of songs that make you feel a certain way. What you have to do is listen to each song and watch out for the specific parts that do that to you. I'm sure you'll find a pattern or some sort of similarity with each song.

It's a nice thought, but as I said previously, there doesn't seem to be any universal rules that govern behavioral responses to music.

There aren't. Music preference is an incredibly subjective thing. But one thing I do believe though, is that for those who do listen to it, we share that "spine-tingling" experience (or something similar) with one song or another. The songs may differ, but the experience may be similar.

Furthermore, listening to music while doing any other activity will always be deleterious to the other activity, despite what some people claim about how music helps them study.

I tried studying with music in the background. Mozart is ok, the other composers aren't - either too distracting or they make me want to sleep. Haha! But when it comes to doing something physical and monotonous, some types of music do seem to be beneficial. Not only can music take your mind off the physical activity, it also dictates tempo. Take jogging for example.

" but I see it as a sudden phase shift in the synthesis of information in my brain; suddenly various pieces of information from various modalities and sources were united into a whole that made sense on both a rational and emotional level." and so ,, how do you "SEE" this phenom ????

[quote1213420808=funkgunk]" but I see it as a sudden phase shift in the synthesis of information in my brain; suddenly various pieces of information from various modalities and sources were united into a whole that made sense on both a rational and emotional level." and so ,, how do you "SEE" this phenom ???? [/quote1213420808]


Are you being critical of this because you have nothing better to say or are you really that confused? I was using "see" metaphorically like when someone says, "I see what you mean" in response to a verbal description of a thing which you do not actually see, but rather, hear. "I conceptualize it as a sudden phase shift..." etc., is more correct.

i am being critical, but have plenty to say, and yes I am confused by your verbage ----is that clear enough ?